Saturday, December 22, 2007

MTT Hand Conundrum

I saw both of these situations go down to very different results today as I simultaneously started two different tournaments-- the $24K on Full Tilt and the $25K on Poker Stars.

It's the fourth hand of a 1300-player tournament on Poker Stars. First prize is just over $5,000 and starting stacks are 3,000. You are dealt K-K in middle position and raise 4xBB to 80. The player in the cutoff shoves all in for 2,970. You have no reads or notes on anyone at your table.

What do put this player on and what you do?

In the exact same scenario, but holding Q-Q instead, what do you do?


Sean said...

QQ: easy fold. I've seen too many people push their AA to trap, especially in cash games (which is essentially what early in a tournament is).

KK: I'd probably still fold it if I knew zero about my opponent. Again, it's about 50-50 whether their overplaying a hand like KK, AK, or QQ, and if they're trying to trap you with AA. You've invested so little, you have no reads, let it go.

That's just me though, and I tend to be conservative early when I have very little invested. I'd rather get easier money later when I have a better read.

If I'd see them do it before with a weaker hand though, I'd be in there for sure.

KajaPoker said...

Really sean?

I call both times and every time.

KK I am only losing to Aces and if that's the case so be it.

QQ could be up against AK but I doubt it.

1300 runners is about 1000 donkeys deep. Take your flips strong and early and move on from there.

I've seen too many idiots try to bully a table by shoving an EP/MP raiser just to establish an image.

Heavy Critters said...

I'm with Kaja 100%. I call both times and twice on Sunday.

There are too many donkeys looking for a quick double up with AK-AT, and if you can dodge that pesky Ace with KK or QQ, you're golden.

As for the establishing an image, I also agree. I do it in SnGs right away, then tighten up, then loosen up, then get a feel for the table and go from there.

Some people just like to lift their leg and mark their territory.

Sean said...

Well, if I'm going against the grain on this, so be it.

I've folded QQ in spots like that in both cash games and tournaments before (and by spots like that, I mean zero read, big stacks, and I'm minimally invested). I agree, a lot of monkeys will just push over a raise for no apparent reason. But I've seen huge overbets like that a lot too lately, especially in cash games, and it is AA or KK enough that I'm willing to fold the small pot and make my money elsewhere. Especially since online has tightened up so much.

KK... Not sure. I'd like to say I would have the strength to do it, but I don't think I ever have before.

EuroSchecky said...

Call Both. PPl are idiots double up early is + EV in these fests. Even up against AA you win one in five and can say (audibly, and rightfully) "dumbass" once you suck out.

bayne_s said...

QQ fold (but it's probably a bad fold).

KK call

Pauly said...


What would Pablo do?

Unknown said...

I call with KK and fold QQ. I call it "fish money" early on, where I'll occasionally take a chance like that because there are SO many bad players early on. I think if he had A-A he'd re-raise you and try to win more money.

I hate Q-Q and would not call with it there, though, because at best you've got a race with A-K, and I'm just superstitious about Q-Q cause its my nemesis hand at the moment.